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Был ли шанс спасти Варяга и Корейца
Варнак: Известно, что о разрыве дип отношений с Японией Алексеев узнал утром 25 января. Он человек умный и вполне понимал, что это значит. До Чемульпо около 880 миль, если не ошибаюсь. Что мог сделать Наместник за осавшееся время. Т.Е до 16.20 26 января, когда Уриу подошёл к Идольми. Есть только одно выслкоскоростное судно - миноносец "Лейтенант Бураков" с его 36 узлами, но у него ограниченный запас угля - смог бы он добежать? Или возможны иные варианты?
Ответов - 51, стр:
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NMD: In starting I kept close along shore to the northward intending if chased by the Japanese to beach the junk and take my chances on shore, but fortunately we were not discovered, though we passed under the search light of a cruiser which made our sail loom up enormously in the darkness. The Japanese were attacking about the same time, the Russian searchlights were flashing around andthe star shells were making it light enough to read by at a distance of five miles. About midnight we had showers of rain, and the breeze holding well we were soon far enough out to be reasonably sure against any interruption. I had intended to make for Shanhaikwan, but during the night and the next morning observed from their Chinese compass that the "laodah"* continued to steer a northerly course. The little daughter of Mme. Chaffanjon spoke Chinese, and using her as interpreter, I found that the laodah was heading for Tsinchow** at northwest corner of Liaotung Gulf. He insisted on this course, saying that there were many pirates in vicinity of Shanhaikwan, and that he did not want to go there. It made little difference to me, though I thought his reason more probably was that he might have been in trouble about Shanhaikwan and was afraid of the police. About 6 p.m. August 15, when in sight of Saddle Island we sighted on starboard bow two junks at anchor, which picked up their anchors, made sail and stood down toward us, one crossing the bows, the other heading to go astern. There are many lawless junkmen in the Gulf who rarely attack Europeans however, but taking into consideration the uneasiness of my laodah and Chinese crew, who said the junks were "hung huza" or pirates, I took no chances on their getting too close and headed our junk off to west¬ward. The winds were very light and the two junks followed us for about an hour, our screw sculling along with the "ula."*** At dusk they were about 1,000 yards astern, and one of them fired twice at us with a rifle. It seemed quite certain that this vicinity was not very safe, and I now insisted that we head for Shanhaikwan. This was done and we drifted along during the night with light winds, next morning at daylight being off a low sandy beach, in vicinity of Sand Point. I had trusted the navigation to the Chinese pilot, who was rec¬ommended to me by the Russian officer commanding the beach guard at Pigeon Bay, as being a good pilot for the whole of Liao- * Pilot. **NowTsingtao. ***Yuloh—a long oar.
NMD: tung Gulf. But when he informed that this was Shanhaikwan, I knew he was mistaken, since although I had never been there, and had only a small scale chart with me, I knew the Great Wall came down to the sea at that point. We anchored and one of the crew went ashore to find out where we were, and on his return we picked up anchor and ran down the coast arriving at Shanhaikwan about 8 p.m. August 16. They are good boatmen, the Chinese junkmen, handling the junks excel¬lently. In a little squall we ran into they were all standing by with all sail made, and in the stronger gusts would handle the sails and helm well to meet the emergency. As the man came off to us at Sand Point, there was a strong current, and he could not make the junk. One of the deck hands on the junk very neatly floated a line down to him in a bucket, and he hauled up alongside. When running into Shanhaikwan I found they knew the place quite well, but evidently had some reason for not wanting to visit it. I slept on the junk that night and early next morning on going ashore found a couple of Japanese soldiers on the beach sketching and making notes of everything connected with the junk and her passengers. On starting out from Pigeon Bay I had paid the junk man half the agreed price, one hundred rubles, and now gave him the other hundred, and he immediately began filling his junk with vegetables for a return trip to Port Arthur. I was able to learn later than the day after I left, Commander de Cuverville and Lieutenant von Gilgenheim also started on their attempt to get out with the intention of following the same route I had taken. A junk was secured by paying 400 rubles or twice what I had paid, and just before casting off the Chinese crew demanded a cumshaw* of 100 rubles which was given them in the form of a cheque. They did not get clear of the coast that night, but anchored under Liaotishan until next morning, and a junk sup¬posed to be theirs was seen to be working slowly out to westward shortly after daybreak. It was never known exactly what became of them, but some Chinaman tried to pass the cheque given them as a cumshaw, and * Colloquial for Chinese kam-sia, a gratuity or gift. General naval use: something obtained for nothing.
NMD: from that as a clue, a disconnected sort of story was learned of their movements later. According to this the junk first anchored under Liaotishan for lack of wind, and next morning the Chinese crew objected to proceeding on account of danger from mines, or from Japanese cruisers or some such reason. The attaches insisted and in the dispute shot one of the Chinese crew in the leg, then cut the cable, and made sail themselves. The crew the next night attacked the officers and threw them overboard, and killed the Russian ser¬vant of Commander de Cuverville, who was one of the party. The Chinese testimony was that the officers were drunk, but neither of them was a man likely ever to get in that condition, and the Chinese may have mistaken a certain excitement not strange under the circumstances for that condition. They stated also that the two officers had money and many objects of value about them, but this was very improbable. What gives some air of truth to their story was the mention of the Russian servant being with the offi¬cers, and few knew of that circumstance. If they were made away with by the Chinese crew it must have been through some misun¬derstanding with the crew, neither speaking the others' language, and a probable embarrassment from which I was free, thanks to the little daughter of Mme. Chaffanjon. For a long time I believed they had been encountered by a Japanese cruiser, which sunk the junk, as they had threatened to do. The Japanese destroyers overhauled junks met with, but the larger ships did not waste time on them and sank them by gunfire all standing. Whether murdered by the crew, sunk by the Japa¬nese, blown up by a mine, or captured by pirates, it is still difficult to say, but the Chinese government officially closed the incident by executing three Chinamen in Chefoo a short time before I passed through there in August 1905. Captain Hopman, the other German attache who intended to remain a while longer in Port Arthur, was ordered out by the Ger¬man Emperor on August 17, took a junk and went out under safe conduct to the Japanese line of blockading ships, whence Admiral Togo sent him to Kiauchow. He had the opportunity of seeing the Japanese ships from a short distance on August 13, and they appeared then ready for action, Mikasa included, but with marks of battle about their funnels and upper works.
NMD: Большое спасибо Гансмиту, которого я постоянно подвожу своими заморочками со сканером.
s.reily: NMD спасиб (прочувственно пустив слезу)
Ас: Sir_Skaner пишет: Выходит, возможность вытащить "Варяг" ещё была, если не забывать о радио. А нужно это для того, чтобы ОТДАТЬ ПРИКАЗ покинуть или забрать посла, но спасти крейсер! О радио-то можно было и забыть...
Evgeny: Касательно прав Руднева: ТЕЛЕГРАММА В.Ф.РУДНЕВА УПРАВЛЯЮЩЕМУ МОРСКИМ МИНИСТЕРСТВОМ ВИЦЕ-АДМИРАЛУ Ф.К.АВЕЛАНУ Сайгон. Принята 26.П.1904 г. ГЛУБОКО ТРОНУТЫ БЕЗПРИМЕРНОЙ МИЛОСТЬЮ ГОСУДАРЯ ИМПЕРАТОРА. ВСЕ ЧИНЫ ОТРЯДА ПРОСЯТ ВАШЕ Пво ВЕРНОПОДДАННИЧЕСКИЕ ЧУВСТВА ГОТОВНОСТИ ВСЕГДА ЖЕРТВОВАТЬ ВСЕМ ДЛЯ ОБОЖАЕМОГО МОНАРХА И ОТЕЧЕСТВА. РУДНЕВ Слово "отряда" взято в скобки и рукою Рожественского сверху написано "какого", его же резолюция: "В записке слово отряда вычеркнуть. Нет отряда". Выходит, Беляев не был ему подчинён.
NMD: Evgeny пишет: Слово "отряда" взято в скобки и рукою Рожественского сверху написано "какого", его же резолюция: "В записке слово отряда вычеркнуть. Нет отряда". Выходит, Беляев не был ему подчинён. Да нет, это ЗПР прикалывался так. Корабли на дне, команды на 4х кажется разных транспортах в разных точках пути. Какой нафиг отряд?
рыба: Добрый день. Вообще то тут имеет быть некий юридический казус, Беляев подчиняется Рудневу в мирое время как старшему на рейде(до тех пор пока там находится), при этом права и полномочия Беляева оговорены соответствующими статьями устава №299 и пр., но формально при этом действительно нет образования "отдельный отряд" те Руднев не является в мирное время "Флагманом" и соответственно на него не распространяются полномочия главы 3 Морского устава или начальником отряда соответственно. Вот Зиновий Пертович и проявил начальственную бдительность какой такой павли...где отряд, что Вы себе позволяете нетути у Вас прав начальнико отдельного отряда и никогда не было, но как то забыл, что время то военное, вообще можно взять Морской Устав и начать крючкотоворстовать, вот только какой смысл, и так понятно кто кому подчинялся(по крайней мере у Беляева сомнений как то не было). С уважением Александр
Krom Kruah: рыба пишет: и начать крючкотоворстовать, вот только какой смысл И увы - это ему было не в последный раз. "Фильм "Ощущение" - если и смотрил его, то категорически не понял." (с)
Sir_Skaner: Ас пишет: О радио-то можно было и забыть Почему? И при чем тут вопрос о подчинении? (хотя, конечно, интересно рассказано) Крейсер всё же подчинялся ком эскадры. Приказ передать от него было можно - и всё, Павлов при бубновых интересах, а "Варяг" разводит пары...
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